My opinion only and I hope I am wrong, time will tell and please feel free to discuss.
Europe’s gas problem will cause sky high electricity prices for the western world. Even here in Australia the price of electricity has sky rocketed because we are exporting our gas at a higher price, therefore also creating a higher price in the local market, our price increase has nothing to do with a shortage on our end. There already are shortages of gas in Europe, and if you look at historical data the demand for gas goes up at the start of winter. Not only will this cause price increases in the western world, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there are rolling blackouts. I wouldn’t be surprised if even the USA cant keep up with the demand if they up gas exports to Europe. Do you think the government is going to choose between you keeping the lights on, or making a killing exporting at such a high price? They’ll just blame Russia and make $ exporting.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if some western countries try to ban mining during this period. Has anyone else noticed that the MSM has been writing about the amount of energy used for mining lately? Have they been “swaying the minds” of the uninformed so that if a mining ban discussion does take place they will be thinking “Yeah ban those pesky miners making my electricity price high” it might only be a ban taking electricity from the grid, they cant prove much if you’re mining from your own electricity source anyway.
I think those that generate their own electricity one way or the other will flourish over the next 6-12 months. If miners have to go offline because A: a ban or B: unprofitable at grid prices, I think miners generating their own electricity will see more profits, just like when miners from China had to relocate, correct me if I’m wrong but the profitability during that time was very high.
I generate my own electricity and the wholesale electricity price for exporting is so high it will only take me 2 years to return my investment on 40kwh solar + 30kwh batteries + 1 X L7 + 5 Goldshell X5’s because all my spare electricity is being sold to the grid at ridiculously high prices.
That’s my thoughts. I think it’s important to openly discuss and look at all possible outcomes, or at least the probability of event X happening because for a lot of people that will drastically effect the ROI of any miners purchased.
I called the power company and estimator is coming to my house to see what is best way to approach this. I will be using 6700 kw on two KD MAXs and still need add fans, AC unit, lights, internet and alarm system.
@ShredZ - Did you get a subsidised solar and battery plan in AU? My brother is in AU and he got panels and batteries up in sunny Queensland largely subsidised.
Here in NZ - it’s 20K for a PowerWall, and about the same for anything else around 16KWh.
So I’ve got a system going in soon but it’s a $40K invesment that is only going to make 15000 KWh for the year. The miners will chew that up in no time. Still worth it though. I can change the battey overnight for 11 cents. Then I don’t have to worry about the peak day rates.
I have 2 properties - one piece of farmland with 40kwh solar/ 30kwh batteries and my home which has 8kwh solar/tesla powerwall. My Tesla powerwall I got real cheap in 2020 with subsidy, it was $5,000 AUD so it was really nice to feel like I actually got my tax worth that year! my other batteries are greenbank batteries which was $13,500 aud including shipping, no where near as fancy as a powerwall. my 40kwh solar should generate at least 60MWH for the year. wholesale feed in tarrifs should be on average between 20-30c/kwh (sometimes it actually spikes up to $15 not even kidding) so the excess solar should be close to pulling the same $ as my L7 does. The best part is im going to build a house on that farmland and have free power for the rest of my life and can be made off-grid if I want. I also bought my wife an electric car so dont need to pay for fuel either. So even if mining goes to $0 I can still get my moneys worth, guess not all my eggs in one basket hey.
Yeah mate how good are the time of use plans! on my house in winter I charge my battery at 10c/kwh time of use when theres not enough solar coming in. 15mwh so is that a 10-12kwh system? Love it mate even if miners chew it up it will still put you in a good position in terms of your home and lifestyle. Its just a good feeling to not be dependent on government services. Are you in south Island? sounds like a lot of people were without power after the weather you guys got and some probably still are, so insuring yourself against possible wild weather is also a plus.
Yep - Christchurch - Central South Island.
12.48KW of panels will take to entire north facing side of the roof. 32 panels.
Upgrading the 60A single phase line from the street to 3 Phase. I was told I can’t have any more miners till I get a bigger feed in.
12.8 KWh Sungrow modular battery that can be added to like lego.
Summer will be great, winter will be very average. As long I can can stay off the 22 cent sholder-peak and 29 cent on peak rates I’ll be happy.
I went Sungrow at I can add battery capacity in 1.6KW/h increments. PowerWall doesn’t have enough control for my 5 time zones of rates and you can only add them in $20K blocks.
Can’t wait - I’ve got all the miners off 8 hours a day when it’s 29 cents. Got the S19 only on at night rate for 8 hours. Would love to see what they hash 24/7.
Without mining - I am 100% self sufficient at my house with 8kwh/13kwh battery for 8 months of the year and that generates 12MWH a year. When I only had my goldshell X5s I used a Grid connect powerboard and set them on a timer to only run for 12 hours a day which worked well. It’s pretty cool to be able to overcome obstacles like this. I will say with powerwall they have recently added a time of use feature and you can add as many rates as you like and set the prices. it learns from your habits and learns to charge at the cheapest rates based on your behavior.
Yeah Im actually hoping that over the years to add more solar. When I build a proper shed on my farm Im hoping to add an additional 20kwh solar. Then when I build my house another 20kwh solar. and see how I go from there, imagine having 1mwh!
With greenbanks you can buy 15kwh batteries and have 6 connected in parallel so I could have 90kwh batteries. Perhaps if I want to keep on expanding I can have multiple 90kwh batteries. I’ll just try to learn everything first before getting that far ahead, Im sure ill make some mistakes! Anyway I hope that all works out for you hope you can get them running 24/7 on real cheap power cheers legend
Going to bump this with both nord stream pipelines going offline indefinitely gas prices will continue to rise. Where I live there is only Gas, wind and solar so my area will increase in prices as the grid always needs idling gas in the background regardless of the solar and wind supply. Perhaps in your area there is no gas and might not be affected but I still think the possibility of rising energy costs should be factored into ROI when buying a new miner
with rising electric and gas price, I think mining industry is definitely going to suffer until we see a big surge in price. everyone is suffering right now including the so called “big miners”. I live in vegas and our power has risen by 20 percent over the last 12 months which is ridiculous. I notice other miners are going solar, but unless you plan to mine for a very long time, solar isn’t really going to be an immediate game changer. Our only hope right now is for the entire market to recover from this painful winter season asap imo.
Yesterday , I had a talk with with colegue from Chech republic , he is paying electric for his household 0.3 usd per KW… totaly crazy situation in EU … Here in Serbia I am paying 0.07 per KW , but I have possibility to build wind generator plant … But nobody is selling them , or you can pay for 10KW generator 20 000 usd and wait for generator 2 years delivery … Before Ukraine war it was 5000 usd delivered in Serbia…
For exaple one 10KW wind generator with 5kW off grid hybrid inverter and battery can power one L7 all over year , with wind that I have here…
Many home miners in Europe will kill miners very soon…
In Australia it has risen by more than 100% over the last year. East coast Australia has also been warned of rolling blackouts due to shortages which is insane considering we are one of the most resource rich countries in the world. I am going to quote someone’s diary of the Great Depression in the US in the 1930s.
“We have been told there’s no milk available to buy, yet as my starving children and I walked home we watched the farmers tip all of their milk into the river as they were paid by the government to do so”
The government at that time reportedly destroyed resources in an effort to drive up the export prices. In my eyes this is already happening. The government will always choose the $ over its citizens.
I strongly suggest people look at the wholesale electricity export prices in their area. Yes if you only used solar to power your miner then financially it does not make much sense in a lot of areas. But for 6 months of the year my spare solar will generate more $ than my L7 exporting to wholesale. This might actually be a once in a lifetime opportunity to ROI solar + batteries + miners in 2 years. And add that to your home well you are set. (I expect to export 200kwh a day at 20c usd/kWh)
Nice with your electric rates, you’re not worried about price spikes? Serbia has been friendly to Russia, correct me if I’m wrong? Sounds like you won’t have anything to worry about my friend
I had an L7, a KD5, a CK5, three KDboxes, and a KDBox pro, and enough Solar to eliminate my electric bill BEFORE the miners…with the miners my bill was nearly $800, then INFLATION HIT, and everything became more expensive, including electricity rates. I sold all my miners. I can’t live on hope. The Federal Government in sync with the Federal Reserve central banks appears set on destroying any chance of allowing competition or any proof of work to compete with their hegemony.
My best financial investment still is the development of my personal skills and a realistic approach to seeking profit.
There will be problem soon… January , February 2023… All of our water acumulations are empty it is dry season in Europe , so hidro power plants are working on 60% , yes we have still cheap gas , but only way to get Russian gas and gas from Asia is Turke stream if it gets sabotage as Nord stream we have storage for 2 months supply , and EU is forcing Serbia to start with sanctions on Russia , we will se what will our politician do by this question on 8th October… AND we cant import cheap Russian oil , we do not have exit to sea , and Croatia block oil pipes from their port to Serbian rafineries… So now we import Kirkuk oil that is 20% higher price …We have reserves for 2-3 months…
But this is still cool… Main problem is Putin with small tactial nukes, … From one side , from other side we have problem with Kosova , that can excalete in near future , if that hapends Ukraine war will be joke , last time in 1999 we mess with all Nato 27 countries , and not even Nato land forces didnt want to get in on foot to Serbia…They shot us from skies above , this time our smart politicians ( when I say smart this is ironic) bought most advance SAM rockets and systems , and ofcourse new Migs from Russia… I wounder why? In this time of economical trouble…
Very interesting wholesale electricity rates in my area over the past fortnight, a lot of negative rates (that means they PAY you per kw to use) so this is a very dramatic swing compared to last month going all the way back to march. Take note of the screenshot where the first 30 minutes was -44 cents/kw and the next 30 minutes was $2.66/kw. I’m looking at the energy market operator during these times and there’s nothing different about the electricity demand conditions so I do not understand exactly what has changed. It would be such a double whammy to run miners at a negative rate and charge my batteries at negative rates and then run my miners off the batteries when the prices are higher. How’s everyone else’s wholesale rates are they going down?
I have a 17,000 kWh/yr solar array. The local power company gives me 3.5 cents credit to put on the grid verses they charge 13.5 cents for 1st 600 KWh and 10.5 after that. The point is my utility pays very little compared to what they charge.
@ShredZ - I popped over to Oz last week to see family - I saw South Australia was deperate for load as the grid ties to export it were down. I was thinking how great it would be to have a container of S19’s you could turn on as a public service to an over supplied grid.
I hear a lot about power prices rising around the world, but here in NZ things have been pretty solid as it’s mostly made by Hydro so not effected by fuel prices. I’ve had no increases - or decreases…
Yeah mate Hydro seems to be a great source of power I think ive said here before Tasmania is 90% Hydro and 9% wind and the remaining 1% is natural gas and solar. I went down to my dam the other day to try and work out how many liters per second overflow I have to see if I can make some hydro power from it and there was a big red belly black snake next to the over flow so I’ll have to try again another day
Yeah I know exactly when you mean, they shut off my solar I was so pissed off. And then something was wrong with the grid my inverter kept saying the grid was trying to do 250 volts or something and kept shutting off. 10% of homes were without power for 2 days or something like that. SA is an absolute joke with our electricity. One day we will not have enough natural gas and there will be too many EV’s charging at night and we wont be able to handle it. This is why I started mining in the first place - to pay for electricity independence from the grid. If I ever quit farming I for sure will look at buying some land with good hydro for mining.
Yesterday was a really hot day where live and where I live our energy source is only wind, solar and natural gas. Everyone was running their air conditioners and when the sun went down it was dead calm so there was a huge demand for electricity. The demand was 2000mw (there’s only 1 million or so people in south Australia) and they could only provide 1500mw of gas, so they fired up the diesel generators and provided 400mw from diesel and the remaining 100mw was wind power. This caused a huge price spike in the wholesale electricity as shown in the picture below with the buy price at $16.58 and feed in tarrif was $14.90 for one kwh. This is rare and happens 5-10 times a year, and the wholesale price is controlled by the government so it’s not limited to just one provider. Now this sucks if you are buying electricity, but if you are selling then it is great money. The sun is down so no solar, but some batteries it is possible to discharge batteries into the grid with the “Smartshift” Program which I think is available in SA and California last time I checked. I did try this program with my Tesla on my house and I did not like it because it would discharge my battery when I wanted to keep SOME power for myself instead of having re buy during the night. However I want to do this program with my batteries specifically for my mining container with the 30kw batteries and solar. I’d happily turn off my miners for 12 hours for $300-$400 when I’d only make about 0.22 litecoin during that period. I’ve been paying attention to wholesale electricity in my area for a few years now and I know every city or state is different but it’s worth knowing if you can generate electricity and make money with it in other ways other than mining. Does anyone else reading have experience exporting electricity at high prices? Would love to hear
Yeah mate they give you a 12 hour heads up of what the expected price will be however that does change. I am no longer with this wholesale service but I have kept my login so I can see how it works and apply it when I want it at my second property for mining. I have also created a scrypt that can log into this website and read the current wholesale prices for buying and exporting electricity so It can automatically turn off power points if the price is too high or turn off solar exports if the rate is negative.
